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No. 30587 Steaming at Baker Street

No. 30587 Steaming at Baker Street, copyright/credit Leon Daniels

It has been something of an open secret that the London Transport Museum has been preparing for a limited number of Steam runs on the Metropolitan Line next year. Indeed in February we posted pictures of the L&SWR Beattie Well Tank being used to test steam on the Line (you can find those photos here and here).

This morning, the Museum finally posted both timetable and ticketing details, for the runs and given the level of interest this is likely to produce, the Museum have wisely opted to carry out a ticket ballot. To quote from their website:

Due to popular demand for tickets and limited capacity on the steam train a public ballot will open on Monday 29 October 2012 (online application) at 10:00 and 5 November 2012 (phone application) at 10:00 and will close on Sunday 11 November 2012. The ballot is for the opportunity to enter into a draw to purchase tickets for train runs on Sunday 13 and Sunday 20 January 2013. A maximum of 2 tickets per person can be requested and only 1 request per person. It will be possible to select the date and either first or standard class seats. It will not be possible to select specific seats or train departure times. Successful applicants at ballot stage will be selected at random by computer and notified from 19 November onwards. Those who are successful will be contacted to arrange secure payment, with ticket despatch scheduled to begin on 3 December.

The ballot itself can be found here.

The LTM have also posted a PDF containing timetable and pricing details for the runs. For ease of reading, we’ve transcribed it below. It also contains details of the runs planned with Sarah Siddons. We have boxed the steam runs in grey.

LU150 13th January 2013

Non-stopping service from Moorgate to Kensington (Olympia), via Edgware Road

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive - First class £80 / Standard (3rd) class £50

Moorgate 12:10
Kensington (Olympia) 12:42

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 13th January 2013

Non-stopping service Kensington (Olympia) to Moorgate, via Edgware Road

Passengers may only board at Kensington (Olympia)

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive- First class £180 / Standard (3rd) class £150

Kensington (Olympia) 19:15
Moorgate 19:47

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 13th January 2013

Non-stopping service Moorgate to Edgware Road to Moorgate return trip

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive- First class £180 / Standard (3rd) class £150

Moorgate 20:10
Edgware Road

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive for the return

Edgware Road
   
Moorgate 21:02

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 13th January 2013

Non-stopping service Moorgate to Edgware Road to Moorgate return trip

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive - First class £180 / Standard (3rd) class £150

Moorgate 21:25
Edgware Road

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive for the return

Edgware Road
Moorgate 22:17

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 13th January 2013

Non-stopping service Moorgate to Earl’s Court, via Edgware Road

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive – First class £80 / Standard (3rd) class £50

Moorgate 22:40
Earl’s Court 23:06

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or
cancellations may be necessary

LU150 20th January 2013

Non-stopping service Kensington (Olympia) to Moorgate, via Edgware Road

Passengers may only board at Kensington (Olympia)

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive– First class £80 / Standard (3rd) class £50

Kensington (Olympia) 18:23

(This service is only Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive for the first 6 minutes)
Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive for rest of trip

Moorgate 18:56

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 20th January 2013

Non-stopping service Moorgate to Baker Street via King’s Cross to Moorgate return trip

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive – First class £180 / Standard (3rd) class £150

Moorgate 21:30
Baker Street

Hauled by Sarah Siddons Locomotive for the return

Baker Street
Moorgate 22:17

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

LU150 20th January 2013

Non-stopping service Moorgate to Earl’s Court, via Edgware Road

Passengers may only board at Moorgate

Hauled by Met No 1 Steam Locomotive – First class £180 / Standard (3rd) class £150

Moorgate 22:40
Earl’s Court 23:05

Please note that due to the nature of running heritage trains, changes in the timetable or cancellations may be necessary

jump to the end
There are 44 comments on this article
  1. Not from Purley says:

    That wasn’t the Met Class E, but the L&SWR Beattie Well Tank on the tests earlier this year. And the post is invisible if you have the background black.

    So standard is now 3rd class?

    Don’t think I can afford £150…

  2. Greg Tingey says:

    There are horrible rumours circulating about closing off platforms & restricting photography …
    The price is horrewndous!
    Also Met No 1 is non-condensing, so it isn’t going to “work” properly, is it?
    It wil chuffle along regulator about 1/5th open, while “Sarah” does the work from the other end.

    All that said, it is a suitable celebration, to start 150 years of the world’s oldest UndergrounD isn’t it?

  3. Chris says:

    The lack of condensing gear really isn’t an issue Greg – the test with the Beattie Well Tank was a success and the LT Panniers weren’t fitted. While it was of course necessary when the Circle and Widened Lines saw a constant stream of steam train’s, this will be one loco on one train working in one direction.

    Chris

  4. Josh says:

    They’ll also be £2 coins and commemorative Oyster cards.

    A bit of celebratory decor is to be expected I’m sure.

  5. Mags says:

    Wow that is expensive. Can anyone help with explaining to me what 3rd class means? Do you think that includes a seat, I would love to treat my Dad but its no good if he would have to stand all the way. Any info would be gratefully recieved.

  6. Twopenny Tube says:

    GT @ 4.37pm: “There are horrible rumours circulating about closing off platforms & restricting photography …”
    Restricting photography – fantastic, a rare chance for a public occasion to proceed without spurious flashes, and lots of arms in the air, belonging to people who can’t resist detracting from the scene by getting their own personal record of it in sight and sound. I’m sure maqazines and newspapers won’t neglect to record and publish various scenes, and in due course no doubt the obligatory ‘official’ dvd etc. will appear. These will be all the more enjoyable for armchair observers if the aforementioned distractions are absent.

  7. Chris says:

    Mags, 3rd Class is the traditional name for Standard – all tickets are for seats. The train will be a combination of the Jubilee carriage (all first class) and the ‘Chesham Set’ (mixture of first + third).

    Chris

  8. Mags says:

    Chris: thank you.
    To used to travelling on the 21st century version :-)

  9. Greg Tingey says:

    The LU-bought ex-GW panniers, used for engineers’ trains were not condensing-equipped, but all of the 97xx class that worked through to Farringdon (See “Steam on the Widened Lines”) were so fitted, as any locomotive on regular workings had to be.
    Take the point about a “one-off” though.

    Twopenny Tube
    Are you paid by LU “management” to write this sort of thing?
    Yes, I know some people are silly, but the modern reaction to BAN EVERTHING & EVERYBODY, spoiling it for the many, rather than controlling the few is not the way to proceed.

  10. John Bull says:

    Thanks Not from Purley – both of those should be fixed.

  11. THC says:

    Greg @ 08.01

    On your second para, amen to that! For those of us not able to afford the extortionate prices of these railtours, a platform end might be our only chance to see Steam on the Underground. If it helps, I promise to be a good boy and keep my arms in and my flash off…

    THC

  12. Chris says:

    I think some form of crowd control will be necessary THC, as there will be thousands with exactly the same thought!

  13. THC says:

    I dare say you are right Chris, if only to ensure our safety and that of the everyday travelling public, as scheduled services will surely continue around these specials.

    THC

  14. TillThen says:

    Sorry the price is beyond me !

  15. James Hardy says:

    Mags, the reason for 1st and 3rd (but no 2nd) is that an act of parliament required certain minimum standards for 3rd class passengers on at least one train a day (the original “parliamentary train”). By the late 19th century competition meant it was no longer viable to have three classes so they abolished the lowest class (in some cases they had been open carriages without seats), but because legally they still had to run 3rd class services, the non-first class were called “3rd class” until it was eventually renamed “standard”

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Regulation_Act_1844

  16. Jim Head says:

    Why are some tickets £150 and some £50?

  17. Jim Head says:

    Right the cheap tickets aren’t actually hauled by steam.

    How much to stand up the platform?

  18. Anonymous says:

    James Hardy (and Mags)

    You have missed out a couple of steps:

    3rd Class became 2nd Class in 1956.

    2nd Class was renamed as Standard in 1985.

  19. Chris says:

    If you mean how much to stand *on* the platform, whatever the cost of buying a travelcard – you can use an Oyster to enter the Underground but your at risk of a penalty fare if you hang about or don’t travel. There’s also the high likelihood that access to the platforms will be controlled to prevent overcrowding.

    Chris

  20. Twopenny Tube says:

    And if anyone is wondering, why it took half a century of two classes, before the change of name from 3rd to 2nd, I think that was to do with the obscurities of cross-channel train ferries, and the requirement to be able to book through tickets to and from the Continent in any of the three classes.
    To try to get back on-topic, when did classes leave the underground? Was it with the demise of loco-hauled stock on the Met circa 1960? Were there ever classes of seating on the tube lines?

  21. Pedantic of Purley says:

    Yes if you regarded the Northern City Line (Finsbury Park to Moorgate) as a tube tunnel which it was/is although it is just about large enough for sub-surface size stock. For some perverse reason it was once owned by the Metropolitan Railway for whom the idea of not having first class was unthinkable.

    The Tower Subway advertised First Class but in reality what it had we would call priority boarding today.

  22. Long Branch Michel says:

    On my last visit to Paris in 1992 the RER still had 1st class sections. However the clientele in these sections obviously did not pay the extra (or any) fare.

  23. timbeau says:

    Why did the Met take over the NCL? I think it valued its traffic off the GN over the Widened Lines to Moorgate, and didn’t want anyone else, especially the Combine, getting a piece of the action with the shorter route via Essex Road. The Met introduced 1st class on the NCL after the takeover

    First Class ended on the H&C in 1936, most other surface lines in 1940, and finally on the Aylesbury and Watford lines 1941

  24. Dave says:

    “It will not be possible to select specific seats or train departure times.”
    So, one could land up with 50 quid tickets to ride behind Sarah Siddons?
    I must have missed something as I can’t see why they don’t allow a preference to be given in the ballot – e.g. steam only , or a specific train for that matter.

  25. Rogmi says:

    Perhaps the reason for the lucky dip ballot is to ensure that they get the £150 / £180 seats filled!

    There again, no doubt there are plenty of people willing to pay those prices for a few minutes ride.

    If they expect such a rush for the tickets, perhaps they should have run more trips. I’m sure that they could have set one night aside (a Saturday night?) and run trips throughout the night – perhaps Olympia (or even High St Ken) to Moorgate – and still have enough takers. Perhaps have something special going on at a station at the same time to keep people entertained in the meantime.

    Even though stations are closed, they are still manned, so in the event that the train has to be evacuated, there are still staff available for the station to be opened. I’m sure that the cost of any additional staff rewuired (to man the termini stations) would be more than paid for by the profit from the trips.

  26. C says:

    Can we have some posts on actual transport developments?

    Rather than historical interest, or this frothing malarkey…. unless the brief of the blog has changed – I thought it was supposed to be about transport changes, improvements and developments, not nostalgic and obscure guff.

    For example, the London Bridge changes announced this week, more regular Mayoral/CityHall dissections, DLR line speed changes, Crossrail updates, Northern line extension, LOROL timetable changes (late trains), works at Kings Cross, Paddington, Baker Street, post-Olympics plans, ELL to Clapham and many more……

    Instead of reposting the H&W crash post for a lack of content.

    Sorry to be blunt, but I like this blog for continuing what its predecessor started and its relevance.

  27. Dave says:

    @C : Use the “be a spotter” and “be an author” links to share your knowledge, rather than venting your spleen.

  28. John Bull says:

    @C

    Well the Harrow content was reposted because it was the 60th anniversary of the disaster, which to my mind made it pertinent.

    In terms of “site brief,” to quote from the “Why We Write” page:

    We write to try and provide a bit of depth where sometimes it is lacking. To cover topics that maybe haven’t got the level of attention yet that they may deserve. To layout and explain the facts when we know and understand them, and to provide a framework within which our excellent commentors can when we can’t. We also write to highlight some of the history and hidden areas of interest to be found in London’s transport infrastructure as well.

    I guess the thing to remember is that ultimately we’re a small team and (much as we’d love it if we could) don’t get paid to do LR. We’re fine with that – we write because we like doing so – but sadly it means that there are jobs, wives, children (and indeed grandchildren) and other activities that fight for time with research and writing. Right now, for example, we’ve got a new LR-baby in the team and one of us is deep into the process of trying to buy a house. Both of which are turning out to be surprisingly timeconsuming! Ultimately that leads to a certain amount of topic triage – probably more than we’d like.

    The trouble is, to actually write half-decent content about stuff takes a lot of time – which is precisely why most news sources these days don’t do it.

    You mention coverage of the Mayor/City Hall stuff, for example. Well to give you an example, pulling together and writing the first part of the last Transport Committee coverage took me about 8hrs. I’m currently half way through writing the second part, which has already taken another 4hrs. Neither of that would be a problem if we were “full time” but we aren’t. Indeed sadly this was one of the reasons I had to stop pulling out and transcribing MQT Transport questions after each session – because it would take a whole day to do and I just don’t have the time if I’m also going to try and research other bits, track down photos (and permissions to use them) and pester TfL, Network Rail et al. to give us information, photos and answer questions. Indeed I worked out a little while back that, on average, I currently spend about 25hrs a week doing LR stuff in some way – that’s chasing content, editing, writing, doing site visits, researching and doing site admin stuff (such as moderating spam and dealing with trolls). I enjoy that, so that’s fine – but I also enjoy watching (if that’s the right word at the moment!) Arsenal, drinking Ale, playing computer games and spending time with the wife. Fitting all of that around a normal full time job is a bit of a balancing act, to say the least.

    If someone offered to join the team and take on responsibility for transcribing MQT each month, then I’d leap at the chance – but it’s dull work, and most people (naturally) if they’re going to volunteer time don’t want to spend a good chunk of it doing glorified spreadsheet work.

    To look at some of your other points, London Bridge – we’re actually talking about this on the editorial messageboard right now – picking each other’s brains, working out what info is online, who’s best placed to write something, what they should cover and trying to get some answers on some things from Network Rail. That all again, cumulatively, takes time.

    We’re also, to a certain extent, hostage to events. We’ve been spoilt in London over recent years with new infrastructure and trains, but we’re less so now. So if nothing “visual” is happening – and if nobody (be it the agency responsible or individual photographers) have photos we can use then there’s nothing we can run.

    With regards to the Clapham Junction Extension, for example, I see little that we can add to the conversation right now until December (unless something unforeseen happens). We covered testing, with photos, but what’s left to say? All I’m doing there right now, therefore, is trying to make sure we’re there, with photos, as soon as it opens in December (and if I can wrangle it before).

    As to Crossrail, well tunnelling has now begun at the Eastern Portal and we’ll hopefully have some photos of that shortly. Beyond that, though, the only real momentous event was the spoil removal issues last month. They were well covered, in basic form, in the mainstream media. So we’re now waiting until the post-event reports surface before we cover them. I’ve also got a whole wealth of Crossrail 2 research done, but again the trick is finding the time to write it up.

    I guess what I’m saying is no need to apologise for being blunt – I totally take your points on board. I just feel obliged to say that LR is very much like a duck in water. The surface is smooth, but there is an awful lot of frantic movement beneath the surface to keep it that way. Basically keeping the quality (and level of fact-checking) up takes an enormous amount of time but sadly that’s the one resource we have the least of.

    If I’m honest, what we really need on LR at the moment is a couple of “junior reporters” – people who can pull together photo posts, watch for “spots,” and transcribe/summarise documents (subject to editorial oversight) and chase down old books or reports.

    That kind of work that isn’t fun, but most journalism graduates grit their teeth and do for a couple of years to pad out a CV. If we were a full-time magazine we’d be able to hire to fill those roles, but as we’re not we face the same problem most “volunteer” organisations do – it’s hard finding people to help with the dull stuff!

    Rest assured that frustrates me sometimes as much as it no doubt does yourself.

  29. Anonymused says:

    but I also enjoy watching (if that’s the right word at the moment!) Arsenal, drinking Ale, playing computer games and spending time with the wife

    If “the wife” spots that list and thinks it’s in order of priority then you’re probably in trouble!

  30. Greg Tingey says:

    C
    Because history, especially on railways is IMPORTANT – it matters as to how things got to be that way.

    2rd class became obsolete, because 3rd got better & 2nd didn’t.
    Except on the boat trains, because the continent kept 3 classes for much longer.
    Then the name-change, as listed above …
    The GN&C Rly was taken over by the Met in 1912/13.

    There are other matters awaiting discussion I expect – because some of us have been in correspondence with the pricipal authors about these matters & as said above it takes TIME.
    Like the delay in Thameslink procurement, as well …..

  31. Benedict says:

    Interesting came up maybe two three weeks ago. As they stated long ago, TfL were against leasing Crossrail stock and wanted to buy it outright (citing the increased total lifetime costs of using a leasing company as being a drawback), but the DfT was against this. And then a few weeks back it was announced that in order to gain funding for the stock, the government would underwrite the private capital. Least I think I’m remembering that right…

    Government underwriting PFI:
    http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2012/11/01/60-projects-pitching-for-uk-guarantee-as-act-passed/

    TfL against PFI:
    http://www.publicsectorpages.co.uk/news/transport-for-london-warns-against-pfi-deal-for-crossrail/

    Recon this could be a good follow up story to the previous one on XR rolling stock. Or yet another reason to hope that someone copies Guy Falkes this year :-/

  32. Martin S says:

    If demand for £150 a pop tickets for a 30 min steam-hauled run on the top of the Circle line is so high there has to be a ballot for them, can’t TfL just run the things every Sunday until they have a cash pile large enough to finance their wildest dreams?

  33. Malcolm says:

    @ Martin S – good plan, but economists would quote the “laws” of supply and demand, and draw a diagram to show that it would not work. Come to think – what do they know? Maybe it would work!

  34. Ben says:

    Martin S – it is speculated that certain people becoming ever senior in TfL are dead set against anything other than trying to run the railway as a business. This would include heritage runs sadly. Look at the *fantastic* example set by the final tour of the Met’s A stock, for example.

    No, running old trains or specials isn’t running a commuter metro business, even if it did prove lucrative/profitable and bring in only good publicity and PR…

  35. THC says:

    @Ben, 8.19pm

    “It is speculated” by whom? Unless you can substantiate that claim, you’ve done nothing more than create a straw man. That’s hardly likely to prove helpful to the cause you advocate.

    THC

  36. Greg Tingey says:

    Ben is probably correct
    There used to be “Staem on the Met” days, which got crossed out ….
    Same as BR refused ( apart from 4472 / 60103 ) to allow ANY steam locomotives on its’ tracks for several years.
    There are people who despise history, and refuse to learn its lessons, the idiots.

  37. Kit Green says:

    Re specials / steam / anniversaries etc

    It is a sign of weak management when they are frightened of anything outside their experience (or lack of).
    This is the modern way. Why pay for quality when a one trick pony will suffice.

  38. Ben says:

    Dear John – I think you do a great job and you must ignore all the nonsense that your “bloggers” contribute: they would be better employed taking on some of your research jobs.

  39. Graham Feakins says:

    Hallo All,

    I’ve been rather silly because I received a telephone call from the LT Museum saying that I had got two tickets allocated from the ballot for the steam run at 22.40 from Moorgate. In the heat of the moment, I thought that it was going to be too late at night for me in practical terms (travelling and personal oomph to wait that lomg during the day) and let the offer go.

    Sorry, I should have accepted it in any case and offered the tickets to others here if I couldn’t make it. Of course, somebody else will now have the chance.

  40. Steve says:

    Does anyone know if its possible to get tickets to stand on a platform and watch a train go by?

  41. MikeP says:

    @Graham – I got the call, too, and accepted, deciding that a bit more damage to the credit card wouldn’t notice in the scheme of things :-). And maybe the father could be persuaded to make it a Christmas/New Year/Birthday prezzie.

    Afterwards, though, I did wonder if maybe someone had hacked into the LT museum system, got the names and phone numbers and called round. I should have carried out a security check. Good news, though. The merchant name on the card account looks kosher, even tho the tickets aren’t here yet.

  42. John says:

    For those of us who are never in London on a Sunday, will No. 1 be visible in steam at Lillie Bridge depot (for example, from passing West London trains) on either of the Saturdays?

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