Our chum, Greg Burns, writing in the Fulham Chronicle, draws our attention to a youtube video of Hammersmith and Fulham Council’s vision for Old Oak Common.
Old Oak Common (the Starship version)
He writes:
The run-down area will see 12,000 new homes and 40,000 jobs in Hammersmith and Fulham if the Department for Transport (DfT) approve its high-speed rail (HS2) plans in December.
It would result in a new transport hub and major interchange station linking Great Western and West Coast mainlines, Crossrail, Bakerloo and Central underground lines and Heathrow Express as the HS2 travels from London to Birmingham in just 49 minutes.
A major regeneration of the area, dubbed Royal Park City, designed by world-renowned architect Sir Terry Farrell would revolutionise one of London’s poorest areas.
And the council has developed a computer-generated video clip with interactive artist’s impression of the ambitious project.
Filmed to the soundtrack of 80s classic We Built This City by Starship, the video is called We Built This City on Rails and Road and is four minutes long.
A narrator describes Old Oak as a ‘forgotten area of London and area of urban deprivation’ and in the bottom fifth of the most deprived areas of the UK.
Councillor Stephen Greenhalgh, council leader, said: “The YouTube clip clearly shows how HS2 could be the catalyst to create Park Royal City.“HS2 is the fastest way to deliver much need new homes, jobs and opportunities in one of London’s poorest areas and the case for an interchange station at Old Oak is overwhelming.”
Sir Terry, who is also designing the controversial Earls Court development, will talk about the plans at The Place West London event at Olympia on October 1.
He said: “The regeneration potential of the transport super hub at Park Royal City is a tremendous opportunity for London and the UK as a whole.
“This project is of huge significance to the economy of London and will deliver a new metropolitan quarter of the city, with new homes and employment opportunities in an area currently occupied by brown field land.”
Community members and business leaders in Old Oak have welcomed the plans. But the government’s HS2 plans have come under fire from other parts of London and the Home Counties for the impact it will have on their own environments.
The railways in the area have probably not had such a high film and video profile since Dirk Bogarde, in the role of ne’er do good Tom Riley, diced with death near the Central Line at White City in the 1950 Ealing Film’s production “The Blue Lamp.”
Note the CGI appearance of a cross between the Docklands Light Railway and Croydon Tramlink – Is architect, Sir Terry Farrell, who always shares his billing with his backing group, “the Partners”, subtly nudging somebody’s elbow not to forget about the North and West London Light Railway? A project we have previously commended. We might think that and you could possibly comment, so please do.
The West Coast Main Line link to Crossrail, mentioned in the video, features as a one of the new projects supported in the recent London and South East RUS. As we have commented before, the RUS does question a number of the original design philosophy tenets of Crossrail – in particular the inner city urban metro model adopted in preference to Michael Schabas’s 2003 ” Superlink” concept. It is integral to HS2′s plans for the redevelopment of Euston Station, the proposals for which are now transiting through the dark side of public consultation – the analysis of comments. HS2′s route into and through London will be a topic to which we will return shortly.
Finally for those of our readership for whom nostalgia means something ending in 80′s rather than 50′s, who are shocked by the video soundtrack’s anaemic techno-parody of their memories of youth, a multitude that no doubt includes our current vintage 1964 Mayor, we offer up the unexpurgated version of Starship’s anthemic “sing raucously whilst stuck in a traffic jam” music.
Whilst bopping gently to the rhythm of his lotos eating days, the Mayor might reflect that if the new urban regeneration complex built on Stratford’s former “Railway Lands” is “Livingstoneville”, then Old Oak Common could become his “Borisberg”. This vision of Fulham and Hammersmith Council is ambitious but eminently achievable.
Last time OOC was mentioned, I said “Can anyone point to an official document suggesting that *any* of the NLL/Bakerloo/Central are going to be integrated at OOC?”. And the video suggests my skepticism was correct. While the DLR/tram thing is probably a good idea (and possible to then be extended), its not the same as providing direct access from the existing lines to the OOC station for HS2. Without the single integrated station fewer people will use HS2. And with all the development, it will be impossible to fix it later. Not at all impressed with the transport plan so far.
BTW, where is the Crossrail branch to Watford in the video? Joined up thinking needed…
It’s about time that an official document DOES suggest that all of the above are integrated.
Especially thr loopy non-interchange between the NLL/Central line just to the East of West Acton station at present ….
You mean ‘Park Royal City’ – although ‘Royal Park City’ may be even better.
Transport Minister of State Theresa Villiers calls it ‘Wormword Scrubs International’.
Surely OOC only makes sense with multiple interchanges. Then it could work as a Stratford of the West.
The Bakerloo is too far north surely, whilst where does it go to that crossrail cannot take passengers quicker? Are the central and NLL more important than the WLL? Crossrail duplicates much of the former in central london anyway, whilst the WLL gets you directly to CJ. That opens up a hell of a lot of South London to access trains/tube heading out west and north without needing to go into the congested core (think of heathrow, wembley, etc). Admittedly, the WLL would probably need more tph than now but I think going to CJ is more important than Richmond and I don’t you can do both with a single OOC station. Better to rebuild North to provide central/NLL interchange for the locals. Passengers transferring have other options.
Also, A40 Western Avenue is there too. Maybe such a project could finally get Gypsy Corner upgraded as well as the fast link to Stonebridge Park interchange. You’re going to need roads too you know.
The inability to serve both the NLL and the WLL is another reason why I favour a 6 track GWML through the station. Have the two Crossrail service patterns running on separate lines so you can have stations at either end of OOC station on both the NLL & the WLL in addition to the station the council wants on Ladbroke Grove….and I think you could squeeze one in at Westbourne Park two, to save passengers from having to go all the way back to Paddington to interchange between the H&C Line and Crossrail. Extending these 6th lines out to Airport Junction would then given the outer Crossrail services on the relief lines a clear run into central London as all the stoppers would be on the new lines.
You tend not to think of the Bakerloo going West, but it does, before it heads north. We have all been brainwashed by the Beck map. I suppose it does duplicate Crossrail in some destinations – Paddington and the Oxford Street area – but offers more useful options than Crossrail, from Marylebone and Baker Street right down to Charing Cross and Waterloo. Then there are the possible Southern extensions of course. It could make a lot of sense, and beef-up the Bakerloo no end, making that central tunnel more of an “earner”.
“… connecting with Heathrow Express!”
Er, isn’t the intention to roll the Heathrow Express services into Crossrail?
(Also “Jobs Express Light Rail”? Failure of the imagination, much?)
I think the concept is sound, but the weasel words and qualifiers—note the use of “potential” when the narrator discusses links with other lines, such as the NLL and WLL—strongly suggest this project will be a pale shadow of what it should be. Yes, the WLL, NLL, Bakerloo, etc. are awkwardly aligned here: what do people expect from an old, complex, transport system with components dating back well over a century and a half? In other nations, this is considered an *opportunity to fix the mistakes*, not an obstacle to be mumbled about for a few months before being kicked into the long grass, with an interim, half-arsed “solution” chosen instead.
But then, the insane costs of building *anything* in the UK doesn’t lend itself to turning “either / or” options into “let’s do BOTH!” So I know what will be built will not be anything to write home about. It’ll look pretty, in its glass and steel hat, but, form and function will both be sacrificed on the altars of compromise, political micro-management, and short-termism.
I found the vision doc published in July and it looks quite ambitious.
http://www.westlondonalliance.org/wlaextranet.nsf/0/B22E55FD6E7E977680257903004EE324/$file/110825%20A%20Vision%20for%20Park%20Royal%20City%20International_low%20res.pdf
@Alex Mac
But the problem is the Bakerloo this far out takes an age to get into Baker Street-Waterloo. It’s 9 stops to the former and 15 to the latter, and on a small train ill suited for luggage with no A/C. By contrast, crossrail will be 2 (maybe 3…) stops to Bond Street and then one extra stop to baker street or just three more to Waterloo. It’s a far quicker journey on larger and likely more comfortable trains. Interchanging at bond street should be easier than now due to the rebuild. Obviously for anyone who lives in NW london near a bakerloo line station it would be useful, but not really for central london.
@stimarco
Not sure what they could do bar either a) rebuilding the route or b) having two separate ‘terminals’ west and east and linking them by some kind of automated device. The problem is would the demand to use the central and NLL be large enough to build it? The WLL gets you to Sh. Bush and Westfield/HP plus some the routes NE of WJ and crossrail central london. Ok, you miss out Richmond and the Ruslip branch but I’m not sure demand there is large enough. Could be wrong though.
The pdf by EW is worth looking at. Pages 19 and 34 offer two different public transport structures (with maps).
The first has a junction station where Crossrail and the NLL cross, with a new link to the MML, plus a Docklands style LRT. The second diverts the NLL via OOC itself (south side) with links to the WLL and MML, plus a Docklands style LRT. Neither alters the Bakerloo or Central lines. Clearly, I think the second is a lot better, but it seems to be the secondary plan. Perhaps LR readers should do a little lobbying?
[pedant] It’s Hammersmith & Fulham Council and not as you have it in the last sentence. [/pedant]
Otherwise, you’re right – ambitious but eminently achievable. I’d expect nothing less from H&F Council.
@Alex mac and anonymous
the real problem with the Bakerloo is that it twists and turns so much, taking three turns of 90 degrees or more between Oxford Circus and Queens Park (mainly because of the big loop to serve Paddington), and as a result takes ages to get not very far as the crow flies. From anywhere in the OOC area it is quicker to use Great Western or the Central Line to get to the central area, and Crossrail will make it even easier. If you want to catch a train from Waterloo, you can use the WLL and pick it up at Clapham Junction.
Over three stops the tube should usually be faster than a bus – but not from Maida Vale to Edgware Road, where thanks to the Romans the No 16 bus has a straight run!
There is no logic in connecting the either Tube line at the main interchange as they are both relatively minor routes for OOC with Crossrail taking the brunt of the traffic from the new station into Central London anyway.
The big miss in the plans is the WLL – the plans show two options of adding the Richmond branch of the NLL into the new station but the ability to get passengers from most of South London into the hub is much more important and this is done via Clapham Junction and the WLL. This also has the effect of adding most of the NLL stations as many of the WLL services continue to Stratford currently and presumably will continue. Also the WLL provides services to Watford and Milton Keynes via the Southern services creating linkage to more destinations
They suggest a new North London Line station on the south side of the Paddington lines, and then a new curve up to Willesden Junction.
They also want a new curve in the west, so trains from Clapham Junction to Watford could also use that new station.
That therefore gives an option for the West London Line Overground trains to stop there as well, although it would lengthen their route somewhat.
I don’t get why people keep talking about a Bakerloo line interchange. it is ages away from the OOC HS2/CR site. A wider Park Royal City would benefit from the existing station there if they built another station but not OCC – unless you count as an interchange this “JELR” – I refuse to spell it out, it makes me cringe.
Clearly they’d have to choose between NLL/Central or WLL. WLL would provide the Clapham Junction link but there isn’t the room down that way to build the full interchange – so maybe just build a separate station and have it is a quick pedestrian friendly walk?
Of course, these could all be added later – so long as provision is made in the master plan. The NLL/Central connection doesn’t have to be inside the ticket barrier, just so long as it doesn’t take more than 5 minutes travel platform to platform.
A super OCC interchange is unrealistic, what we’d probably end up with is the HS2/CR Old Oak Common with a quick connection to a NLL/Central North Acton. Then you’d have Wilsden Junction (for Bakerloo and WLL) linked via a light railway. Perhaps a new, separate WLL station within a short walk if possible.
Let’s be honest, a lot of people just want to connect all the lines because, well, they’re there and it would be cool having one mega hub. The reality is however that a) the lines are spread over too wide an area to make it viable b) there really isn’t the need for transfer passengers to access all routes as some just offer slower duplications. Very few people would need the central line and even fewer the bakerloo. You can’t just build expensive interchange for the small number of passengers wanting to go to Ruslip, for example.
The best thing to hope for is a connection via some kind of transport device (PRT?) between OOC and an improved WJ, basically making them terminals of one transport interchange. Some kind of link off the WLL is possible and probably desirable. Imagine all those people in South and SW london who can access Heathrow/M4 corridor, Bristol, Wales and the SW and the major cities north of Watford without entering central London.
I really don’t see the point of having an HS2 station at Old Oak Common. I can see the case for a joint Crossrail/LU/LO station, but not HS2. There are already plans to build a link from Denham to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Uxbridge and West Drayton, which would open about the same time as the HS1 – HS2 link in Camden Town.
If those links were to be built (they will probably be built eventually) then there would be no need for HS2 to stop at OOC. It would increase journey times dramatically, which is why Eurostar are not planning to stop at Stratford International any time soon, because it is just too close to central London.
Instead, a much better idea (in my opinion as always!) would be to have more stations outside London on the way to Birmingham, just as HS1 has Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International. Possible HS2 stations could be “Aylesbury HS” and “Leamington Spa HS” (I did think of a “Coventry HS” at first, but that would be too close to the confirmed Birmingham Interchange). HS of course stands for High Speed, and is taken from the French way of naming high-speed railway stations – e.g. Valence TGV and Lorraine TGV (TGV = Train à Grande Vitesse = High Speed Train).
There could a be a mixture of services, e.g. non-stop from London Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street, non-stop from London Euston to South Yorkshire (Sheffield)/Leeds/Manchester/Glasgow/Edinburgh, semi-fast also calling at Birmingham Interchange, and stopping London Euston to Birmingham Curzon Street/beyond Birmingham calling at a variety of stations or all stations: Aylesbury HS, Leamington Spa HS, Birmingham Interchange and Birmingham Curzon Street.
Just a thought.
I also want the extensions to Manchester/Leeds to be called HS3, and another line (HS4) to be built between London and Cardiff, serving Reading, Swindon, Bath and Bristol, with a branch from Bristol to Exeter and Plymouth.
If any of what I have said will ever come to fruition, I don’t think it will for a very long time. Better late than never though – we are extremely far behind the rest of the world with high-speed railways. Look at what France has done, look at what China has done – China especially is making a huge effort to build a high-speed line which will be over 2000km long between Beijing and Guangzhou, Guangdong Province, with an extension to Kowloon, Hong Kong SAR, being built jointly by China and Hong Kong.
The UK really needs to step up a gear or three (not two!).
George Moore, HS2 trains will stop at Old Oak to allow a swift and easy transfer onto Crossrail’s large and air conditioned trains into the centre of London. It will also be quicker for many than going through Euston, where the cramped tubes couldn’t cope with the envisaged passenger flow. And stopping HS2 trains all over the place defeats the purpose of building it, much better to build Parkway stations on the classic routes and speed up the City-City journeys. Lots of intermediate stops will destroy capacity on HS2, and if you are spending £32billion you want to make maximum use of that capacity.
You need OOC for the connection to Crossrail, that it also provides a link for Heathrow and traffic from the Thames Valley is not to be sniffed at either.
Chris
Why stop HS2 at OOC – surely it is much cheaper to have a HS2 terminus at Royal Oak/Paddington to save the cost of burrowing to Euston and connecting to Crossrail for Central London/Canary Wharf (and thus making most of the South East a one change connection), Crossrail for Heathrow (avoiding special HS2 trains to Heathrow) and Hammersmith and City to St Pancras for Eurostar (which again will be a very easy connection for the 1% of passengers likely to make this interchange)
There have been some very thorough answers to that T33, but the most obvious is that it puts the majority of passengers onto Crossrail – if that goes up the swanny, then OOC and HS2 stop working too.
Chris
@ anonymous (13th)
The WLL is failrly easy to integrate into the whole, by diverting it onto an alignment parallel to the GWML. There is already a proposal to have Crossrail connected to the WCML, – if the DC lines were to also follow this alignment they could connect up near the OOC station box (probably directly aboive it) to provide a Watford – Clapham Junction service via OOC. New platforms on the Central and NLL near where they cross would complete an integrated complex with very short distances between platforms (no worse than Stratford).
The dc lines could then tunnel back to Kensal Green, so that all interchange is at OOC and Willesden Junction is served only by the NLL. (The tunnel would pass under Kensal Green cemetery – I doubt the inhitants would object!) However, a cheaper option would be to continue to run services on the existing alignment between Willesden Junction and Queens Park
Possible services.
Watford Jct to Clapham Jct
Watford Junction – Euston (or to Stratford via Primrose Hill*)
Richmond to Stratford via West Hampstead
Central Line to West Ruislip
Crossrail
(Possibly) Greenford – Ealing Bdy – OOC – West Hampstead – Gospel Oak – Barking: this assumes capacity is available West Ealing – Ealing Bdy: Ealing Broadway passengers for central London would lose the Central Line, but would have a direct service using Crossrail, or can change at North Acton. (This replaces the WLL to Stratford services diverted to Watford Junction)
*This alternative assumes passengers for Euston can change at Primrose Hill/ Chalk Farm or use Crossrail and the Circle Line.
To make room for other services, the Bakerloo could be terminated at Queens Park – faster journeys from Wembley and beyond to Paddington, Oxford Circus etc will be possible using Crossrail.
Anyone know what the plans are for the North Pole Eurostar depot the other side of the tracks at Old Oak Common?
Is that where the IEP Depot is going? Or am I thinking of the wrong place?
The IEP depots are listed on this link from the DafT website and includes North Pole
http://www.dft.gov.uk/topics/iep/